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	<title>Comments on: Liturgy is Not Enough</title>
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	<description>Old English: Sanctuary (formed from the words "holy" and "work" thus what goes on in a sanctuary.) This is my sanctuary for writing on religion, academics, and the other things that ground my life.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 01:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: J-Tron</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7085</link>
		<dc:creator>J-Tron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'm coming late to the party, but allow me to add my voice to the chorus of those who appreciate what is said here.  I have often felt the same way.  As Anglican Christians we've been given a tremendous gift in the liturgy, a treasury of immeasurable value, and we routinely throw it away for the sake of trendiness.  Moreover, it is quite true that so many people in the pews who've spent their whole lives worshiping in this tradition do not know why they do what they do.  And many clergy are equally clueless.

I think that many of the suggestions made here, especially about the office, will be helpful to me in my own ministry.  I would like to add one suggestion of my own.  That is to read and study the Exhortation (BCP, 316-317).  Not only do most laity not know about the Exhortation but I get the impression from casual conversations that most clergy are unaware of it as well.  Yet it contains probably the most cogent statement of Anglican Eucharistic doctrine anywhere outside of the Eucharistic prayers themselves.

I think that the Exhortation should be read in parishes at least quarterly.  And I think that it should be used as a catechetical tool in adult ed classes, confirmation classes, inquirer's classes, etc.  It's not the only thing that we can do to strengthen our understanding of the gift of the Eucharist, but it seems to me to be a good place to start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m coming late to the party, but allow me to add my voice to the chorus of those who appreciate what is said here.  I have often felt the same way.  As Anglican Christians we&#8217;ve been given a tremendous gift in the liturgy, a treasury of immeasurable value, and we routinely throw it away for the sake of trendiness.  Moreover, it is quite true that so many people in the pews who&#8217;ve spent their whole lives worshiping in this tradition do not know why they do what they do.  And many clergy are equally clueless.</p>
<p>I think that many of the suggestions made here, especially about the office, will be helpful to me in my own ministry.  I would like to add one suggestion of my own.  That is to read and study the Exhortation (BCP, 316-317).  Not only do most laity not know about the Exhortation but I get the impression from casual conversations that most clergy are unaware of it as well.  Yet it contains probably the most cogent statement of Anglican Eucharistic doctrine anywhere outside of the Eucharistic prayers themselves.</p>
<p>I think that the Exhortation should be read in parishes at least quarterly.  And I think that it should be used as a catechetical tool in adult ed classes, confirmation classes, inquirer&#8217;s classes, etc.  It&#8217;s not the only thing that we can do to strengthen our understanding of the gift of the Eucharist, but it seems to me to be a good place to start.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7054</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7054</guid>
		<description>I think overreactions to the personalJesusism in the US are no excuse for recognizing that we each do have a personal relationship with God, and that that relationship is within the matrix of God's relationship to us through the Body that give new meaning to our relationships within the wider world.  Some catholics need to examine their fears of personalJesusism as much as some protestants need to recognize that we come to Jesus through others.  It's both/and.  Again, personal is a profoundly Trinitarian insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think overreactions to the personalJesusism in the US are no excuse for recognizing that we each do have a personal relationship with God, and that that relationship is within the matrix of God&#8217;s relationship to us through the Body that give new meaning to our relationships within the wider world.  Some catholics need to examine their fears of personalJesusism as much as some protestants need to recognize that we come to Jesus through others.  It&#8217;s both/and.  Again, personal is a profoundly Trinitarian insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7053</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7053</guid>
		<description>In other words, our faith is pro me, pro nobis, and pro mundis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, our faith is pro me, pro nobis, and pro mundis.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7052</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7052</guid>
		<description>I want to unpack this a bit more.  It is personal and communal.  We continue to mix up personal and private/individual--these are not synonymous terms.  Of course, it's personal as to be persons requires others persons, just as Rahner's point makes very clear.  Personal does not imply individual, but implies communal.  The moment I do something, say prayer, as a person, I am doing so within the nexus of relationships that form and shape me as a person, firstly God in Three Persons, and the Church, and then the entirety of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to unpack this a bit more.  It is personal and communal.  We continue to mix up personal and private/individual&#8211;these are not synonymous terms.  Of course, it&#8217;s personal as to be persons requires others persons, just as Rahner&#8217;s point makes very clear.  Personal does not imply individual, but implies communal.  The moment I do something, say prayer, as a person, I am doing so within the nexus of relationships that form and shape me as a person, firstly God in Three Persons, and the Church, and then the entirety of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: John-Julian, OJN</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7049</link>
		<dc:creator>John-Julian, OJN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7049</guid>
		<description>Derek:

You wrote "I think there’s a sense that a lot of spirituality is personal spirituality; it’s something that *I* do for *my* spiritual growth. That’s not been the classical Christian understanding of either solitary or public prayer. Prayer is done in connection with and on behalf of the entire community even if we’re doing it alone. It’s not just something for our own personal edification."

Can you hear my "HURRAH" from there?

Joe Smith has to go to work at 5:30 a.m., so he can't be there for the Office at 7. But Annie Jones is a 68-year-old widow who CAN be there at 7. And she can be there FOR Joe, and Jim and Jane and Sally and Fred and all the rest of the parish community! And that is a true ministry. 

Rahner's wonderful definition of priesthood is 
appropriate for just this kind of ministry:

"Für die Menchen, bei Gott zu sein."
"For the people, be with God."
(my translation)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek:</p>
<p>You wrote &#8220;I think there’s a sense that a lot of spirituality is personal spirituality; it’s something that *I* do for *my* spiritual growth. That’s not been the classical Christian understanding of either solitary or public prayer. Prayer is done in connection with and on behalf of the entire community even if we’re doing it alone. It’s not just something for our own personal edification.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you hear my &#8220;HURRAH&#8221; from there?</p>
<p>Joe Smith has to go to work at 5:30 a.m., so he can&#8217;t be there for the Office at 7. But Annie Jones is a 68-year-old widow who CAN be there at 7. And she can be there FOR Joe, and Jim and Jane and Sally and Fred and all the rest of the parish community! And that is a true ministry. </p>
<p>Rahner&#8217;s wonderful definition of priesthood is<br />
appropriate for just this kind of ministry:</p>
<p>&#8220;Für die Menchen, bei Gott zu sein.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;For the people, be with God.&#8221;<br />
(my translation)</p>
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		<title>By: Derek the Ænglican</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7048</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek the Ænglican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7048</guid>
		<description>John--thank you for that testimony! That's precisely the kind of thing we need to share in our parishes to encourage people to start praying the Office themselves!

Fr. John-Julian, These are great suggestions. I just want to unpack something inherent in number 4: I think there's a sense that a lot of spirituality is personal spirituality; it's something that *I* do for *my* spiritual growth. That's not been the classical Christian understanding of either solitary or public prayer. Prayer is done in connection with and on behalf of the entire community even if we're doing it alone. It's not just something for our own personal edification.

Derek B., If you're going to start chant in the parish, then you need to start with a strong core who have plenty of experience doing it. There's nothing worse than when you hit a rough patch and everyone stares at everyone else wondering what to do. Like Fr. Chris says, keep it simple--but I'd agree with Fr. John-Julian--keep it seasonal. That is, if you do chant it publicly, before the start of each season have an informal dinner/cocktail hour (and invite the whole parish) where you sing through the new chants for the next season.

That is, don't try and learn/teach chants *during* a time of prayer. That never works...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John&#8211;thank you for that testimony! That&#8217;s precisely the kind of thing we need to share in our parishes to encourage people to start praying the Office themselves!</p>
<p>Fr. John-Julian, These are great suggestions. I just want to unpack something inherent in number 4: I think there&#8217;s a sense that a lot of spirituality is personal spirituality; it&#8217;s something that *I* do for *my* spiritual growth. That&#8217;s not been the classical Christian understanding of either solitary or public prayer. Prayer is done in connection with and on behalf of the entire community even if we&#8217;re doing it alone. It&#8217;s not just something for our own personal edification.</p>
<p>Derek B., If you&#8217;re going to start chant in the parish, then you need to start with a strong core who have plenty of experience doing it. There&#8217;s nothing worse than when you hit a rough patch and everyone stares at everyone else wondering what to do. Like Fr. Chris says, keep it simple&#8211;but I&#8217;d agree with Fr. John-Julian&#8211;keep it seasonal. That is, if you do chant it publicly, before the start of each season have an informal dinner/cocktail hour (and invite the whole parish) where you sing through the new chants for the next season.</p>
<p>That is, don&#8217;t try and learn/teach chants *during* a time of prayer. That never works&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fr Chris</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7047</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 01:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7047</guid>
		<description>By way of advice, the parish near me prints out the whole order for Morning and Evening Prayer, with music from the '82 Hymnal, in little booklets.  All that is needed beyond that is the BCP for Psalms, as Fr John-Julian mentioned.

The chants needed for this are dead easy &#8212; the Phos hilaron, the Magnificat, the Benedictus, and the Venite. Maybe the Te Deum for red letter days.  From there, you can add the little in between chants -- "Lord, open my lips..." and "Let us bless the Lord..." and all that.  We haven't found that the music is off-putting to anyone. It's easy to pick up, and for those who don't sing, the Psalms and readings are the meat of the service anyhow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By way of advice, the parish near me prints out the whole order for Morning and Evening Prayer, with music from the &#8216;82 Hymnal, in little booklets.  All that is needed beyond that is the BCP for Psalms, as Fr John-Julian mentioned.</p>
<p>The chants needed for this are dead easy &mdash; the Phos hilaron, the Magnificat, the Benedictus, and the Venite. Maybe the Te Deum for red letter days.  From there, you can add the little in between chants &#8212; &#8220;Lord, open my lips&#8230;&#8221; and &#8220;Let us bless the Lord&#8230;&#8221; and all that.  We haven&#8217;t found that the music is off-putting to anyone. It&#8217;s easy to pick up, and for those who don&#8217;t sing, the Psalms and readings are the meat of the service anyhow.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek B</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7046</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 23:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is for anyone to respond to, but particularly follows Father John-Julian's comments. These steps sound sane, and they complement the advice on Derek's Daily Office Propaganda page. I'm wondering what any of y'all have to say about using chant when teaching the office. On the one hand, the beauty of the chant settings are definitely a draw for many people. On the other hand, it does take a bit of learning and practice, and if there is not already a group up and running chanting the office in one's parish, it strikes me that it could be a bit of a distraction at first. 

Any thoughts or advice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is for anyone to respond to, but particularly follows Father John-Julian&#8217;s comments. These steps sound sane, and they complement the advice on Derek&#8217;s Daily Office Propaganda page. I&#8217;m wondering what any of y&#8217;all have to say about using chant when teaching the office. On the one hand, the beauty of the chant settings are definitely a draw for many people. On the other hand, it does take a bit of learning and practice, and if there is not already a group up and running chanting the office in one&#8217;s parish, it strikes me that it could be a bit of a distraction at first. </p>
<p>Any thoughts or advice?</p>
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		<title>By: John-Julian, OJN</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7045</link>
		<dc:creator>John-Julian, OJN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7045</guid>
		<description>About the Office: 

First, 
DO IT -- in every parish, every day, publicly, in the church, at announced times. (And train lay officiants for when the rector - rarely - cannot be there.) And use Derek's propaganda....

Second, 
Make the monastic connection -- both for a model and for spiritual support when one is alone in the parish church. Have monks and nuns visit; encourage monastic oblateship or associate status in the parish; start a contemplative prayer group; etc.

Third,
Don't make it fussy -- minimize page flipping -- don't "embellish" or "embroider" it. (Print out the Office -- in seasonal versions, if you wish -- so folk can follow it straight through and only need the BCP for the Psalms)

Fourth,
Suggest the public Daily Office as a ministry available to all, of course, but especially as one that can be done by seniors, the retired, the alone -- who often cannot do much else.

OCICBW, but it has worked very well in every parish I have ever served.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the Office: </p>
<p>First,<br />
DO IT &#8212; in every parish, every day, publicly, in the church, at announced times. (And train lay officiants for when the rector - rarely - cannot be there.) And use Derek&#8217;s propaganda&#8230;.</p>
<p>Second,<br />
Make the monastic connection &#8212; both for a model and for spiritual support when one is alone in the parish church. Have monks and nuns visit; encourage monastic oblateship or associate status in the parish; start a contemplative prayer group; etc.</p>
<p>Third,<br />
Don&#8217;t make it fussy &#8212; minimize page flipping &#8212; don&#8217;t &#8220;embellish&#8221; or &#8220;embroider&#8221; it. (Print out the Office &#8212; in seasonal versions, if you wish &#8212; so folk can follow it straight through and only need the BCP for the Psalms)</p>
<p>Fourth,<br />
Suggest the public Daily Office as a ministry available to all, of course, but especially as one that can be done by seniors, the retired, the alone &#8212; who often cannot do much else.</p>
<p>OCICBW, but it has worked very well in every parish I have ever served.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7044</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/liturgy-is-not-enough/#comment-7044</guid>
		<description>My first offering is now up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first offering is now up.</p>
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